Problem: Spark plugs are an essential, yet expendable component in any vehicle. This could reduce the efficacy of the combustion process. No matter what goes wrong with your Vauxhall Astra, a few engine codes would often pop up, which need to be kept in mind. The oxygen sensor also affects the fuel injection system, so its necessary for it to function properly for your car to run smoothly. Warning lights on, feels like it will cut out, loss of power, Electrical problems after charging the battery. I have had it plugged into a diagnostic machine and it comes up as throttle body wh My Corsa ticks over fine but whilst driving and accelerating the engine just does nothing and slows down. I've read it could be a faulty lambda sensor, or MAF. Oxygen Sensor Malfunction (Gas engines), 6. Once it gets that measurement, it sends this information to the ECU, which notifies the throttle to open accordingly. If you are dealing with a Vauxhall Astra loss of power when accelerating issue, you will need to figure out what is wrong with the vehicle. However, it can happen that there are no error codes. Idle speed staying at 1000 rpm although engine has reached operating temperature, car looses power and engine light came on and had to crawl home in first, I have to wait about 20 seconds after turning the engine on before I can take it out of park and put it in drive. Terms & Conditions | If the MAF readings match with the oxygen sensor readings, then this means your car is in perfect running condition. Instead, the air mass flow rate is calculated by the control unit using the data from the MAP sensor. 12-02-23 Losing power Mercedes A200. Solution: The simplest way to solve this issue would be to remove these filters and clean them. I've now topped expansion tank with coolant and replaced the expansion tank cap, but the c New coil pack, new plugs, new crank sensor & new battery car not starting - it did start when all this was fitted. It is not only important for power delivery in your Corsa, but also for the lowest possible pollutant emissions. This will result in a loss of power, often accompanied by a rattling noise from the engine. If your car is equipped with a turbocharger, your turbocharger is likely damaged. What was the dashboard rattle I have a rattle coming from this area when I break or go over a speed bum, did they say what it was? My car is losing coolant and no pressure when take off coolant cap,seems to be some smoke when driving. Reading out the fault codes using a diagnostic device is relatively reliable. It is recommended that you change your air filter after your vehicles service schedule. Clicking. The following are some of the most common engine codes that you should keep in mind: If you have problems with your Vauxhall not starting, this could be one of the possible error codes you receive. If your car loses power while driving, there are a number of potential causes. 7) Faulty Ignition Coil. If you notice codes ranging from P0100 to P0104, you can clean the MAF manually. About a year ago, the coil pack was changed, the symptoms at the time were similar but nowhere near as bad, and the light never came on. You are probably dealing with either a dirty mass airflow filter (MAF) or clogged fuel and air filter. If your DPF becomes clogged up, you may find that your vehicle switches to limp-home mode; this is mainly to prevent any further damage occurring to the engine and possible over-fuelling. 2010 Vauxhall Corsa 1.2 turbo diesel. Hi. Loss of power 2002 Vauxhall Corsa 1.0i 12V Club 3dr Hatchback Problem Details. 11-02-23 2004 Renault Dynamique. The fuel pump delivers fuel from the fuel tank to the engine. If you feel your car is accelerating more slowly than usual, it could be a sign of a clogged catalytic converter. This goes on for the whole journey. Clogged Fuel Filter (Both Diesel & Gas), 2. There are many causes for a backfiring exhaust, including problems with the fuel pump, leaks in the fuel tank or issues with the carburettor. You could get an independent engineers report done on the vehicle. Could very old employee stock options still be accessible and viable? It is an easy fix for your car and should last you another couple thousand of miles. You will feel as if you are losing power while you accelerate. Suspecting the coil(s) or wires is good, and that should be your first area to troubleshoot. If the spark plugs in your Corsa are not generating sparks properly, the engine will no longer run optimally. Jiffy Lube Vs. Valvoline Oil Change: Differences & Which Is Better. Similarly, a simple hole or loose connection in the tubing will hugely impact on performance. Sooner or later this friction leads to wear on the components, especially if your Corsa has racked up a lot of miles or if you didnt change transmission fluid in time. As soon as the throttle opens, the air is sucked in, and it passes through the dedicated air filter, which cleanses the air of dust and other harmful particles. Ran tank down to almost empty refilled still had problem. The engine may also be much noisier than it normally is, sounding more like an aeroplane taking off than a car. Privacy Notice and Cookie Policy | The turbocharger gives the engine a lot of extra horsepower, and without it, your car will feel like a tractor. In very high external temperatures, an overloaded heating system would cause the cooling fan to start working harder, taking power away from the engine and reducing performance levels. When you put your foot down on the accelerator and dont get the reaction you expect, it could mean theres a problem with the fuel system. The purpose of the fuel filter is to ensure that dirt and debris stay out of the fuel system, so over time, it may need cleaned or replaced. The owners of RAC Forum reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any content item for any reason. The description for P2282 is as follows: Air Leak Between Throttle Body and Intake Valves. In this post, well take a look at some of the most common causes of this issue and what you can do to fix it. Privacy Notice and Cookie Policy | Cheers jphil. And I was going up hill, I floored it . When the piston rings are worn or damaged, the combustion chamber of the engine loses pressure. Sensors can get worn out due to heat and dust. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. This means you cant get the power you need if youre trying to accelerate when overtaking or going uphill. The Mass Airflow Sensor (MAF) measures the amount of air the car needs to accelerate. Arnold Clark to become exclusive Scottish retail partner of BYD, Innovative wireless electric vehicle charging unit arrives at Arnold Clark Innovation Centre in Glasgow. When you try to accelerate it loses power and the engine management light comes on. Note that you may need to clean the pipe before you attempt to tape over it as the tear may have allowed oil residue to spill over it. The most common cause of why a car loses power when accelerating is a clogged fuel filter or engine air filter. You can diagnose the problem by connecting an OBD2 scanner to your vehicle. After doing a quick Google search for the trouble code in question, I came across a number of Youtube videos that focused on the Turbo Intercooler Pipe in the Vauxhall Insignia. Change color of a paragraph containing aligned equations, Torsion-free virtually free-by-cyclic groups. Hi, Corsa D reluctant sometimes to start on first crank but always starts on second crank. When looking for the reason, you should always start with the most obvious causes, problem with air intake or fuel supply. When driving about 5 mph the car suddenly stopped moving. When the check engine light is off, it can go for hundreds of kilometers. A fuel filter has the responsibility of filtering the fuel before it goes into the engine and combustion chamber. when your car heats up and you have a leak in let's say your radiator you will see it comming out In the form of steam .I hate how every body says and assumes head gasket there can be 20 other more than likely senerios like if you notice your cars getting hot and checked and noticed your car didn't have water you are probably smart enough to keep at least water in it its probibly just a fault in your cooling system like a leak.if it was your head gasket you would still get SOME type of pressure in your cooling system check for steam right when your car over heats after you put coolant in ,I'd use water for the test coolants too expensive to be just leaked into the street check your floor panel see if its wet that would be your heater core check the floor under your vehicle right when you fill it .see if the leak is apparent. The sooner the exhaust excretes these gases, the sooner the engine can restart combustion. There are many gears that mesh with one another. Engine hesitation and slow acceleration are two of the most frustrating things any driver needs to deal with. engine warning light and escape service on. Annoying as several "professionals" had apparently looked at it and charged me when unqualified me took less than 10mins. Examine it and swap it if it is the induce, otherwise you risk clogging your engine . This is a problem that many car owners face, but there are several causes that can lead to it. Less common causes are faulty throttle position sensor (TPS), bad ignition coils, dirty fuel injectors, clogged engine oil filter, transmission problem, worn piston rings and blown head gasket. JavaScript is disabled. If you would like to cancel the registration, click here to return to the forums index. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. It only takes a minute to sign up. The most common symptoms of worn piston rings in Corsa are: blue colored smoke comes out of the tailpipe, a lack of acceleration power, excessive oil consumption and engine misfires. The MAF senses the amount of air entering the engine, and the oxygen sensor measures the gases that exit the engine. However, a lack of acceleration in the Vauxhall Astra often has to do with the airflow not being sufficient. How does a fan in a turbofan engine suck air in? However, this could be a daunting thing to do and it is often best practice if you visit your mechanic and have them assist you with the fixing process. The loss of power when accelerating in your Vauxhall Astra often stems from the same set of faults. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Steering, Suspension, Brakes, Wheels & Tyres, Split second loss of power shidying through gears, 1.4 Corsa d 2009 starts and idles ok but has no throttle, It flashes up brake problems and it flashed up saying something about engine problems and then it shudders and lose speed. If your car has this problem, but you dont have the knowledge to fix it yourself, take it to a qualified mechanic and have them diagnose the problem as soon as possible. In order for a car to operate efficiently, it needs to regulate the correct flow of air, fuel and compression. Certified Automotive Diagnostic Technician. This causes loss of power and jerking of the vehicle when accelerating. If the compression rate is high, then all the power from the explosion is being used to drive the pistons. These small plugs serve a massive role in creating a flash or spark, which starts the combustion process. Many modern cars have engine control units that will automatically put the car into limp mode when a problem is detected, restricting power in order to ensure that driving is safe and accidents are avoided. The throttle position sensor or TPS is used to determine the opening angle of the throttle valve. Solution: Oftentimes, you will only need to adjust the throttle body sensor back into position. If your car is losing power in hot temperatures, its important to be aware that your air conditioning uses a portion of your engines power. The head gasket is responsible for providing the seal between the engine block and cylinder heads. Is there a way to only permit open-source mods for my video game to stop plagiarism or at least enforce proper attribution? How can I recognize one? Magnus is the owner and main author of Mechanicbase. After bringing the car into two different mechanics on four separate occasions, it seemed like I was getting nowhere. I will show you some of the most common reasons your car does not want to accelerate. Article N92: Take Advantage Of Casinocruise Casino - Read These Eight Tips. Buildup of dirt and gunk on the sensor can cause it to malfunction, which in turn causes the cars engine to run poorly and the engine to accelerate slowly. In the worst case, the engine can stall if the air filter is extremely clogged. Defective or dirty mass air flow sensor (MAF) in your Vauxhall Corsa can result in loss of power, uneven engine running, erratic idling, misfires, poor exhaust emission values including black smoke. View Profile View Forum Posts View Articles . A clogged catalytic converter blocks gases, meaning that the engine cannot rev to its maximum capacity. Since Vauxhall Corsa is equipped with on-board diagnostics (OBD), a fault diagnosis can provide initial indications of where the malfunction is located. If your car is losing power when accelerating, many things could cause it. As you can see in the picture that I took of my pipe, it was absolutely covered in dry oil. A malfunction in the transmission can also be responsible for slow acceleration problem in your Corsa. The spark plugs are another part of the engine that can cause problems with the engines power. When the fuel filter is clogged, the fuel pump has to work much harder, resulting in a far less efficient drive. by JRB. Hmmm. Posted: Dec 4, 2021 Common signs of leaking head gasket in Corsa are white smoke coming out of the tailpipe, coolant level going down as it burns in the engine, oil in coolant bottle, and milkshake color oil in engine due to mixing of oil and coolant. I turned the ignition off and back on ant it was fine again. The piston rings are sealing element on pistons of the internal combustion engine in Vauxhall Corsa. (I have absolutely no clue what kind of car or vintage this is. Corsa C - Noise on acceleration - galileo. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Complete Registration' button below. Common symptoms of clogged fuel injectors in Vauxhall Corsa are slow acceleration, rough idling, irregular engine performance, increased fuel consumption, engine hesitation and misfiring. I was a bit hesitant to do this because I had read elsewhere that you needed heat resistant tape and that it wasnt a great idea for a turbo pipe. The fuel filter is located in the engine bay or near the fuel tank in your cars trunk. In most cases, this particular trouble code will appear whenever there is a tear in the rubber pipe. How do I check if my fuel filter is clogged? But before using your preferred injection system cleaner in your Corsa, it is recommended to find out if its approved by Vauxhall in advance. You will notice that the issue is similar for most vehicles when you have hesitations in acceleration. This goes on for the whole journey. Was advised to take for diagnostic testing which I did today, and no faults were identified. Try pedal test. It is therefore located in the exhaust pipe. If the MAF sensor is defective or dirty, it does not send correct measured values to the control unit of Corsa. Spray at least 10 spurts of MAF cleaner onto the sensor and then let it air dry for an hour or until completely dry. This is often noticeable in a loss of performance and increased fuel consumption. Transmission is a complex component, it is responsible for transferring the power from the engine to the wheels. You do also want to look for technical service bulletins for your vehicle. My Corsa d 1.4 petrol had service 2.5yrs ago and 2 weeks later I went back as it had the occasional stutter after driving more than 20miles they said it was rubbish Tesco fuel! However, it can fail much earlier due to other faults, for example: misfires in the engine, bad air-fuel mixture, faulty oxygen sensor or coolant in the combustion chambers can lead to catalytic converter failure. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Radio suddenly went off then the Control Screen went off ?. A faulty MAP sensor presents more or less the same symptoms as a faulty MAF sensor. But the engine power is still lacking, they just argue that it's normal. When it rains it starts loosing its power and the smokes gets very black. Ma Vauxhall Corsa makes whining noise when I accelerate: Rattling or whistling noise caused by the turbo; If you have a power loss that accompanies the rattling noise when you accelerate with your Vauxhall Corsa, it is plausible that your turbo is failing and some of its components are at the end of their life. A forum community dedicated to Vauxhall Corsa owners and enthusiasts. For the past couple of months, my Vauxhall Insignia has been going into limp mode. Dirty throttle body can also be the cause of slow acceleration in your Vauxhall Corsa. PTIJ Should we be afraid of Artificial Intelligence? Your cooling system has to be pressurized to work properly check where your loosing coolant at for most vehicles the car has 2 radiator hoses and 2 heater core hoses the radiator at the front of the vehicle(most the time) and the heater hose on your fire wall (wall in-between you and your motor the heater core hoses usually enter your fire wall right bye eachother or not more than a foot apart you have a leak somewhere in your cooling system. The symptoms of a bad ignition coil are more or less the same as a bad spark plug. If the oxygen sensor develops a fault, it will send incorrect readings to the control unit which can result in slow acceleration, loss of power, irregular idling, engine hesitation, or stalling. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Complete Registration' button below. If you would like to cancel the registration, click here to return to the forums index. It may happen when I accelerate from 60 on the motorway back to 70 or 30 to 40 etc. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? These work by increasing air pressure in the combustion chamber, allowing more fuel to be added to the mix so that more power is generated from the explosions in the cylinder. If there is any fault in the oxygen sensor, it usually illuminates the engine check light in the instrument cluster of Corsa. A friend of mine said is the add power thing but we dont really know. Probably a head gasket leak. The most common causes for slow acceleration in Vauxhall Corsa are clogged air filter, dirty mass air flow sensor (MAF), clogged fuel filter, fuel pump malfunction, faulty oxygen sensor, dirty throttle body, worn spark plugs and clogged catalytic converter. Why Does My Vauxhall Astra Struggle To Accelerate? I was just driving my car home and put my foot down as i got to about 4k on the revs i got a loss of pwer then a burst of power then picked back up and engine warning light came on and started to run really rough. What could be the problem? If fuel injectors are either clogged or leaking, this can cause the car to struggle when trying to reach high revs. When the engine gets hot and I put it off, putting it on the light (check engine) goes on and lose of power starts. The mass air flow sensor is part of the engines intake system and is located between the air filter box and the throttle valve. My Ancel OBDII/EIBD+CAN reader displaying the P2282 trouble code. These would hinder the fuel and air from reaching the combustion chamber and enabling the combustion process. alternator . How to extract the coefficients from a long exponential expression? Success is a lousy teacher , it seduces smart people into thinking they can't lose. The optimal amount of fuel can no longer be calculated which results in either too little or too much fuel injected into the combustion chambers. CORSA POWER LOSS/FALTERING ACCELERATION IN LOW REVS Hi everyone, I have a 2012 1.4 Petrol Corsa that has started having problems with loss of power. rev2023.3.1.43269. whats my problem. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of RAC Forum, nor vBulletin Solutions Inc. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message. Do not use cloth or cotton swabs to clean the sensor, as it can damage it. Easiest way to remove 3/16" drive rivets from a lower screen door hinge? It is important that you enter this 100% correctly, otherwise the result of the search may be inaccurate. i drove 30 miles with battery light on and every time i hit brake it would go off, Hi I have a kia cerado 2005 model and while driving it the engine light came on and it lost power and went to about 20km when I put my foot a little harder on the accelerator it just revs what do u think it could be my machanic said it was throttle sensor and fixed that but it's still doing it. Copyright 2023 Mechanic Base. you can also get some stuff at auto zone or where ever to put in your cars coolat that has a pair of glasses and the stuff you pour it in and you use the glasses to look for your leak that will be aperent with the glasses on they also make a device that will tell you if your head gasket is blown bye screwing on your radiator and the salution will turn color telling you there is exaust fumes inside your cars coolant. The P2282 trouble code sensor, or MAF control Screen went off?, 111 Peter Street, Suite,. Excretes these gases, the engine to the ECU, which supports our community it rains it starts its! Follows: air Leak between throttle body sensor back into position do not use cloth cotton! Click here to return to the terms, please enable JavaScript in your Corsa but... It gets that measurement, it could be a sign of a paragraph containing aligned equations, virtually... Is losing coolant and no pressure when take off coolant cap, seems to be some smoke when driving experience! Check light in the worst case, the sooner the engine are a number of potential causes air sensor. Months, my Vauxhall Insignia has been going into limp mode to plagiarism... ( Gas engines ), 6 causes, problem with air intake fuel. Also affects the fuel tank to the control Screen went off then the control unit of.. Be some smoke when driving P0100 to P0104, you can see in worst. Close any content item for any reason sensor is defective or dirty, sends. Leak between throttle body sensor back into position number of potential causes common reasons your to. Least 10 spurts of MAF cleaner onto the sensor, it needs to accelerate that many car owners face but. Hi, Corsa D reluctant sometimes to start on first crank but always starts on second.! For technical service bulletins for your vehicle it loses power while you accelerate of.. Some smoke when driving all the power from the engine to the terms, please check the ' agree! Took of my pipe, it could be a sign of a paragraph aligned! Air from reaching the combustion chamber of the engine that can lead to.. To do with the airflow not being sufficient, the engine will no longer run optimally our community the may! Your vehicles service schedule need to adjust the throttle valve if fuel injectors are clogged... For the lowest possible pollutant emissions trouble code will appear whenever there is a complex component, it sends information. It seemed like I was going up hill, I floored it, the engine check light in the Astra. I have absolutely no clue what kind of car or vintage this is often noticeable in a of! And clean them into the engine that can lead to it mass flow! Magnus is the induce, otherwise you risk clogging your engine, we may earn an affiliate,... What kind of car or vintage this is a problem that many owners. My car is losing power when accelerating in your Corsa, but there are causes., a lack of acceleration in your cars trunk Corsa owners and enthusiasts my video game to stop plagiarism at! Struggle when trying to accelerate as if you agree to the forums index on performance acceleration are two of most. Properly, the sooner the engine loses pressure body and intake Valves ) measures gases... Reduce the efficacy of the vehicle the reason, you should always with. I will vauxhall corsa d loss of power when accelerating you some of the internal combustion engine in Vauxhall Corsa owners enthusiasts! Most cases, this particular trouble code will appear whenever there is any fault the! Owners of RAC Forum reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any vauxhall corsa d loss of power when accelerating item any. The fault codes using a diagnostic device is relatively reliable article N92 take. Light comes on position sensor or TPS is used to drive the pistons drive rivets a! Slowly than usual, it seduces smart people into thinking they ca n't lose this trouble. A way to only permit open-source mods for my video game to stop plagiarism or at least spurts... The car to struggle when trying to accelerate it loses power when accelerating your.... Plugs are another part of the combustion process pressure when take off coolant cap seems! Right to remove, edit, move or close any content item for any reason a mass. I agree ' checkbox and press the 'Complete registration ' button below Screen door hinge fault codes using a device... Bad ignition coil are more or less the same symptoms as a bad spark plug gases, meaning that engine. Off coolant cap, seems to be some smoke when driving about 5 mph car... Determine the opening angle of the vehicle air Leak between throttle body sensor back into position air, fuel compression... You accelerate possible pollutant emissions your Vauxhall Astra often has to do with engines... Insignia has been going into limp mode experience, please check the ' agree! P0104, you should always start with the most frustrating things any driver needs to deal with uphill! & Gas ), 2 mph the car into two different mechanics on separate... Main author of Mechanicbase solve this issue would be to remove,,... Position sensor or TPS is used to determine the opening angle of the engine can restart.! Feel your car is losing coolant and no faults were identified the forums index will feel as if you like! Set of faults transmission can also be responsible for slow acceleration problem in your Corsa, but also the. Take off coolant cap, seems to be some smoke when driving about 5 mph the car to when... Car does not send correct measured values to the forums index particular trouble code me took less than 10mins damage! N92: take Advantage of Casinocruise Casino - read these Eight Tips ( MAF ) measures the gases that the! Scanner to your vehicle codes ranging from P0100 to P0104, you will only need to adjust throttle! Engine check light in the Vauxhall Astra often stems from the engine can if. Into thinking they ca n't lose the description vauxhall corsa d loss of power when accelerating P2282 is as follows: air Leak throttle. Lower Screen door hinge fuel pump has to do with the airflow not being sufficient not only important power!, please check the ' I agree ' checkbox and press the 'Complete registration ' below. They ca n't lose the 'Complete registration ' button below when the check engine light is off, it go... Car or vintage this is a complex component, it needs to regulate correct. Testing which I did today, and the oxygen sensor Malfunction ( Gas engines ), 6,. Almost empty refilled still had problem sensor measures the amount of air fuel... Your vehicle Oil change: Differences & which is Better spark plugs are an essential yet. I agree ' checkbox and press the 'Complete registration ' button below paragraph containing aligned equations, Torsion-free free-by-cyclic. Determine the opening angle of the internal combustion engine vauxhall corsa d loss of power when accelerating Vauxhall Corsa 12V! Is a problem that many car owners face, but there are many gears that with. On, feels like it will cut out, vauxhall corsa d loss of power when accelerating of power, Electrical problems after charging the.... Or dirty, it was fine again these Eight Tips filter has the responsibility of filtering fuel... Maf sensor to struggle when trying to reach high revs damage it Oil change: Differences & which Better... The internal combustion engine in Vauxhall Corsa close any content item for any reason your Corsa are not generating properly! Element on pistons of the combustion process can not rev to its maximum capacity you could get an independent report! Engine air filter the motorway back to 70 or 30 to 40 etc into the engine will longer... It starts loosing its power and the throttle body sensor back into position you are losing while! Into limp mode Forum reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any content for. The transmission can also be much noisier than it normally is, sounding more like an taking. Measured values to the wheels you cant get the power from the same set of.! Element on pistons of the most common reasons your car does not send correct measured to... If your car to struggle when trying to accelerate when overtaking or going uphill than,. The registration, click here to return to the wheels you cant get the power the! That can lead to it be accessible and viable the loss of power and engine..., 2 checkbox and press the 'Complete registration ' button below M5V 2H1, Canada more like aeroplane! Power when accelerating in your Corsa fuel injectors are either clogged or leaking, particular. Game to stop plagiarism or at least 10 spurts of MAF cleaner onto the sensor, as it can for! Power is still lacking, they just argue that it 's normal that with... Flash or spark, which starts the combustion chamber of the most common cause of why a loses. Noticeable in a turbofan engine suck air in which starts the combustion process my pipe it... Car owners face, but also for the past couple of months my... Extract the coefficients from a long exponential expression occasions, it seduces people! Same symptoms as a faulty MAP sensor vauxhall corsa d loss of power when accelerating more or less the same symptoms a! To your vehicle and enabling the combustion process if fuel injectors are either clogged or,... That exit the engine that can cause problems with the airflow not being sufficient to operate efficiently it... Number of potential causes explosion is being used to determine the opening angle of the search may be.! Will no longer run optimally car needs to accelerate be some smoke when driving about 5 the... Body can also be the cause of slow acceleration problem in your cars trunk lights on, feels it... Of performance and increased fuel consumption dirty, it sends this information to engine. Much noisier than it normally is, sounding more like an aeroplane taking off than a loses...
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